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I have been waiting for the end of shake for a long time now. The only suprise to me was that soo many companies took Apple seriously as a Highend tool provider, but that is of course due to the fact that shake (Thanks to the work of Nothing Real, Ron Brinkman & co.) is such a solid product, in fact it is by far the most “serious” app that Apple has been involve with.
How can a industry full of brainiacs get fool by the empty retroric of Steve Jobs & friends. Apple has never been able to market anything other then overprice shine plastic toys and that’s exactly why they are droping shake, because its a unglamorous serious proffesional tool, once again Apple talks the talks and then stumble’s when they have to walk the walk … Anybody remember 3D on Macs??? Apple will never be more pro then say Final Cut …
Next generation shake ….please …you have to wait a generation because this generation won’t fall for your BS again.I have used macs for 3d and compositing on a variety of films. So I have no idea what your talking about with macs being bad for 3d.
If Apple doesn’t believe in highend then what the hell are all those pro apps they make? Shake has many issues with Caching, quicktimes, only handling 5 channel images, etc…which has been a big beef with people. Many of these things just sound like issues related to the core of Shake that needed to be revamped from the roots in order to work properly. The new tool is being written by many of the same people who wrote Shake 1.0. So get off your high horse.
Apple produces one app that is Highend post production and thats shake, which has been discontinued. 3d on …if you dont mind that everything is super slow or not really working in a practical sense, you could use maya and thats fine for a one/two man pipeline for spining logos and what not, but for big production 3d pipeline, forget about it, not even realistic for fast broadcast production …
Apple should stick to making laptops and iapps and Apple seems to agree judging by their actions.Final Cut Pro? Motion?
Have you actually used Maya on mac since version 6.0 when they rewrote it for Mach-o? Yes 5.0 and earlier sucked, but 6.0 and above is fine. I freelanced for a company that used it for 150 shots on XXX2 and 3 other companies that we’re mostly mac on a bunch of other films, television, commercials, etc…
There are a couple dozen medium sized studios around LA that are 75-80% mac and doing all their 3d in maya on osx. We’re talking about 5-6 of them with 20-50 people, not 2-3 man teams.
I started on Power Animator and have used Maya on everything from irix, window, linux, osx, and there is not that big of a difference. I could careless what OS I’m using it on, they all run it about the same. Linux is more memory efficient then either osx or windows for big iron stuff.
Apple has not discontinued Shake – it is not pushing forward with Shake 5 – it is doing a new high end Compositing Ap instead. – see or hear the podcast 😉
Anyway Lets not get into an apple /pc bash session. There can be no doubt about Apple’s use in the professional market. If you choose to not use Apple – no problem. If you do – great.
Mike
I did listen to the podcast, and what i heard strength my suspision that they are looking to do a app that the Final cut crowd can handle for doing keying, stabelizing, single process task, exactly how they have been promoting shake for quite a while now, as a single task app for a FC editor to jump in and out off, the FC integration in 4.1 reinforces that as well. Apple is of course always gonna call their apps highend, if you ask them if motion is highend, they would for sure say yes, if you ask a post production company they would say no. motion is not comparable to AE Pro, Final Cut is Not nearly as capable as a top avid system, not mention smoke, shake on the other hand is as capable of producing top effects as say flame all be it in a very different way.
I prefer to call the top of range highend and the middle of range midlevel and so on …i find it less confusing that way. Apple apps, shake not included, midlevel.All opinions are valid.
Mike
Bah, thats all BS semantics. I’ve used the “highend” and “lowend” for film. Right tool for the right job and the right situation and budget. This highend vs lowend crap is for the birds.
FCP doesn’t even compare the same to a turnkey online editor like Smoke or Avid DS, they are just two separate beasts. Just like Shake doesn’t really compare properly to a turnkey compositor like Flame/Inferno. Yes, they both overlap in their tools, but they are in no way the same. One is a client machine and the other is a backroom tool. We’re talking different type of jobs and budgets not quality. AE can do exactly the same quality as Flame/Inferno, but it takes 5x as long.
Motion and AE, again, different tools. Motion is for motion graphics only, AE because of the “lowend” crowd has built it up through plugins and pushing the devlopers over the last 12 years to be more and more of a compositing tool.
… exactly!!! The apps that Apple make are of a “different nature” (what i called midlevel), shake stand out in their productline in terms of the core market is one that is fairly cutting edge, for example selling 40 licences of shake and providing support for integrating that into the pipeline for an upcoming feature movie is a completly different world then selling 10 FCP with Motion bundle, the business model for the 10 FCP would be a “Prosumer” market, make a new version, sell it, have a hotline/support site type model, the core market for shake, demands alot more from their suppliers then that. That’s why Apple are leaving that market because they are not making enough money for their troubles. Once again back to my orignal point. The evidence will be in the new shake app, which i am convinced will be aim at a Prosumer type market. If you had listen to my orignal point instead defend Apple (I hope you own shares in Apple) right off the bat, we could have saved ourselfs alot of writing. I really dont care wherther its Apple or Microsoft or whoever … i simply hate seeing any big consumer company decide that they wanna get into visual effects, buy some small really clever company like nothing real, only to give up, and let the app disappear …all to many good tools are sabotage by big companies like Apple, microsoft …and i am convienced that the same will happen with shake, unless somebody will be able buy it. I deal with apple, microsoft almost weekly and they both suck …BIGTIME …i also deal with autodesk alot and thats an absolut DREAM!!! and i know from friends that eyeon are amazing as well …that’s the commitment i am talking about, this kinda support but more importantly, a real deep commitment to push the envolved of this business, like companies such as: Autodesk, Eyeon, Softimage, D2software, The foundry, PixelFarm … If you wanna compare what these companies do to what Apple does, be my guest.
And once again back to my orignal point.tools tools tools.
that’s all they are man. end of the day its just a tool. shake is great im a lead compositor at my studio and heck i love shake, so much so, they even have a blurb about me using it over at apples website. you know what BIG DEAL.
apple discontinues it, and they produce something else. Fantastic! if its good the visual effects community will use it. If not. Big deal. You got nuke, you got fusion, flame, inferno Toxik. They’re all tools. and they all do the same exact thing. End of the day, its the creativity of the compositor and the images he/she spits out, doesn’t matter what tool they used.
-swerve.
Amen, brother swerve
Right tool for right job at right price, as much as I love working on FFI some tasks are way easier and quicker in prosumer – pro apps so you farm it out or jump onto your sidekick computer to do it quickly and jump back in, smoothcam and autoalign in shake are two great reasons to get the hell out of an inferno use the right tool for the task and then jump back in, so is the spot healing brush in photoshop etc etc etc as far as I am concerned if you only know one way to do something then you can’t really offer your clients the RIGHT choice for their budget and timeline now can you?????
Well said Swerve. The artist should not be known for what tools he knows, but what images he can create.
md
The next revision of compositing is hadware based And node based with a modified version of Motion to allow Node based compositing.
the code name for the product “was” phenomenon .
However, i expect that it will change since the leak of information.
Macs are GREAT highend machines,
PFTRACK, MONET, MOKEY and a slew of NON Mainstream SUPER HIGH END apps run amazing on the mac.
and the OS is far superior to anything out there. So dont limit yourselves to what you use because of rumors or bad taste. Its a tool. use it for what its meant for.
-c
I was sent this video a day after i was told ab out the phenomonon application.
i gulped and said GOOD GREIF. Fusion sales must have increased from my distress alone. he he.
Motion. Yuk.
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