Final Cut Extreme

[Anonymous]

zolo wrote:

If FCP had more of the audio features of Logic/Pro Tools and the compositing capabilities of Shake/Combustion/After Effects integrated into the application, it could be a real timesaver and a killer product. Obviously there would still be a need for standalone audio and compositing apps, but for many editors, the additional functionality of high end audio tools and 3D comopositing features would really make it a great finishing tool.

Personally, I like leaner apps and would not like FCP to become the Microsoft Word of video (i.e. bloatware, with features from a whole suite-load of apps thrown in.) I would prefer a more streamlined, live integration of separate apps. As long as each app has a sufficient number of features to function, of course. You can’t have FCP that cannot apply any audio effects to audio tracks, for example.

And I think that’s what Apple’s going for: the video/film/audio/motion equivalent of Microsoft’s Office suite. Anyone who buys a Mac gets iMovie and GarageBand and you could make some very surprising products with just those two. Depending on your needs, move up to Final Cut Express or Soundtrack Pro or even Logic Express. Throw in Motion if you need it. Move up to Logic Pro, Final Cut Pro… move up to Shake.

You have price-point choices depending on the level of what you can afford and what you need to accomplish. But there’s upwards compatibility (Garage Band -> Logic Express -> Logic Pro) and cross-app workflow (FCP -> Logic Pro, FCP->Shake), so you can always add on or move up to expand your capabilities.

Plus, the high end is specialized. You really do NOT want your video editor doing a little of your 3D animation. Or your model-maker taking care of the audio mix. You can manipulate audio, composite, etc, all in FCP to a surprisingly sophisticated level, though not necessarily in the specialized, production-pipeling manner that a pro specialist will.

Anyhow, not raging on you. Just that I think Apple has a nice product matrix (FCP, Soundtrack Pro, Logic Pro, DVD Studio Pro, Motion, and Shake) with each product having a specific focus, culture, and workflow. FCP has to do some audio and some compositing, but it already does so and it does so in a generalistic way that is really not very streamlined for someone who specializes in a high-end app like Shake or Logic. It’s meant for editors, not musicians, film audio editors, multi-track recording engineers, and high-end video or film compositors.

[Anonymous]

Wayne_ wrote:

Anyhow, not raging on you. Just that I think Apple has a nice product matrix (FCP, Soundtrack Pro, Logic Pro, DVD Studio Pro, Motion, and Shake) with each product having a specific focus, culture, and workflow. FCP has to do some audio and some compositing, but it already does so and it does so in a generalistic way that is really not very streamlined for someone who specializes in a high-end app like Shake or Logic. It’s meant for editors, not musicians, film audio editors, multi-track recording engineers, and high-end video or film compositors.

Oh I agree with you completely. I was really thinking more of what another poster had said about an Apple application to compete with Smoke. I should have been more specific. You’re exactly right – not everyone needs all of the features of all of those applications, and it’s nice to be able to only buy what you need.

As far as the current FCP user base is concerned, I think the majority of editors don’t need or care about 2K or 4K editing. They are more concerned with features like being able to mix different video formats and resolutions on the same timeline without having to render, background and/or distributed rendering, and increasing FCP’s realtime capabilities.

I think those are the kinds of issues Apple should be addressing before they create a new high-end application that focuses on a small niche of customers working with 2K/4K material. There are already well-established players in the high end of the industry, and I think it would be foolish of Apple to waste time on rushing a new product to market for the sake of bragging rights instead focusing on its core customers and their needs. Who cares if FCP Extreme will natively support the vaporware Red camera? The Thompson Viper and the Dalsa Origin have been out for a while and there hasn’t exactly been a massive outcry for FCP to natively support them. It sounds to me more like a PR stunt for Apple than a real breakthrough, kind of like a solution in search of a problem. And come on, do we really need a monitor that’s bigger/higher resolution than the current 30″ monster? Like I said, bragging rights.

Anyway, I hope we don’t see another premature Aperture-style product launch from Apple anytime soon.

😕

[Anonymous]

zolo wrote:

I think it would be great if an entirely new separate division of Apple were formed, ApplePro. It could focus entirely on software and hardware for the professional user, without being limited by any of the constraints of the consumer division. This would be the DCC workstation market. It would feature products like Power Macs with scalable professional graphics architecture (SLI?), large memory capacity, 4 and 8 way CPU systems (4x dual core, 8x dual core) and distributed computing integrated into the OS and applications. A new range of products would be geared toward group workflow in a production environment, similar to Toxik.

I truly hope that Apple begins to pull out all the stops and take on the high end market. Recent development looks very promising, so let’s hope more great things are ahead!

Very well said. If apple really did that – intergrating there products as they would almost be one (but still run seperate) not only the high end – but lower end aswell would benefit from it. And us highend guys might be scared – loosing af triumph, but we should be anyway, because it’s not about the tools but the talent 🙂

Anyway – As you said Apple should defiently hire some flame and finishing guys (including colourist) to make the ProApps a flame and smoke killer. If they just ask the shake users it will never be perfect, since they are only doing compositing and not the whole finishing thing!!!

Imagine, how a everyday FinalCut user could benefith to have alot of highend fisnishing tools availible.

If anyone knows the email to steve jobs 🙂 (or any other important apple guy) could you please mail a link to this discussion.

[Anonymous]

Has anyone heard anything about Apple pro support? I am a smoke artist but we have a few offline FCP suites, and I use a mac for photoshop etc next to my smoke. My point being that apple support sucks. If they want to take on high end post they need some serious support.

md

[Deke]

zolo wrote:

dekekincaid wrote:

I think the 3D features of Smoke and FFI are central to the product. Why would anyone just use Smoke as a simple meat-and-potatoes editor? It’s a finishing system, and all of its tools are important to the product. Extended bicubics, DOF, multiplaning – these are features that make Smoke more than just a simple editing application. I don’t see FCP 6 adding much to the pot to lure anyone away from Smoke because apart from support for 2K (maybe 4K?), it’s not offering much that’s different from FCP 5.

I just don’t know many online editors that actually use many of these abilities. Most have a Flint on the smoke machines and they use that for any fx based stuff. We have a Fire/Inferno box and the online editor does everything in inferno and most 3d stuff is done by a 3d person, not much in the compositor or the editor. Most editors I know are pretty 3d ignorant. But I’m not an editor, just stating my observations.

The big difference as it always has been is the price. You can buy 2-5 FCP stations for the price of a Smoke. If Apple puts together a turnkey system or just a more powerful system that is still a fraction of the price, people will still jump on it. There is a place for both, but many times FCP is “good enough”.

zolo wrote:

dekekincaid wrote:

Another poster on these forums has this to say about Maya on the Mac:

http://www.fxguide.com/postlite1704-quadro+g5.html

This guy must be bitter from using the older versions of it or something. I have been using alias products since the PA days. Tested out the mac version since it came out. As of 6/6.5 it is just fine. Before that though, it was suck ass slow. 6.0 was rewritten for Cocoa instead of the old Carbon version which was really pokey. I have already used it on a couple of movies and some television shows in the last year and haven’t had any major problems.

[Deke]

Jonas wrote:

zolo wrote:

Anyway – As you said Apple should defiently hire some flame and finishing guys (including colourist) to make the ProApps a flame and smoke killer. If they just ask the shake users it will never be perfect, since they are only doing compositing and not the whole finishing thing!!!

They actually have people like that, but they are all at the Shake/Motion office in Santa Monica. Many of those guys are ex-discreet, cineon, silicon grail, etc… people. The FCP people are in a separate division up in Nocal.

[Anonymous]

mdoane wrote:

Has anyone heard anything about Apple pro support? I am a smoke artist but we have a few offline FCP suites, and I use a mac for photoshop etc next to my smoke. My point being that apple support sucks. If they want to take on high end post they need some serious support.

md

Actually, I had my eyes opened to this today. Just got a quad G5 and was having a problem with the second hard drive. The IT person mentioned in passing that Dell would have sent a support person out to work on it, while with Apple we talked on the phone and had to be ready to take the computer to the local Apple Store if the phonecall didn’t resolve the problem.

Wow! I refuse to use PCs, but I do have to say that onsite support is a major deal if Apple wants to break out of a niche. If a company is primarily Macs, there’s enough experience and spare parts that it doesn’t matter. And if a company has a few Macs in a few specific departments, it also doesn’t matter since the Mac folks generally take care of their own. BUT the middle ground looks pretty impossible to capture to me without much more serious hardware support.

[iqbal]

if they give all the things in one box, then i thought its not a bad deal.

[Author]

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