HD project settings

[sinancg]

Hi all,

It is going to be my first HD-film project. Here are some info and questions.

The material was shot on film 24 frames, the telecine has been done to HD and then given to me on hard disk as 12bit Cineon files.

What settings should I use when creating the project?
-1920×1080 or 1920×1440 (to see 4:3 video previews – is it possible to see a preview on my PAL monitor?) or something other?

What LUT should I use a to keep the colors consistent with shots that do not involve effects?
– All the frames for effects scenes are transferred to hard disk, but only the shots that involve effects will be processed in Flame.

Any other information regarding this aproach is gratefully welcome.

Thanks in advance

Sinan Vural

[Anonymous]

A few points
– To answer your question I really need to know what version of the software your running. If your on 5.x / 8.x then you could work in a PAL project and thus the mixed resolution cineon/HD frames will be displayed on your PAL monitor – but of course you will need to use the players minus scale button to see the whoie thing. A better question might be – why do you want your film output project displayed on the broadcast monitor. Using Flme/infernos Monitor LUTs you could calibrate your work monitor to some wedges for your film output path.. the broadcast monitor will not reflect the projected output very accurately.

Re the Telecine files, your output path is confusing.. if the telecine output HD – who did the HD 1920 x1080 8 bit or 10 bit linear file conversion to Cineon log files? The LUT used to do the HD to Cineon file conversion is critical.. but I am not sure about your pipeline as you say “12bit Cineon files” and Cineon files are 10 bit log files ? Do you mean Cineon files ?

In Summary
1. Who or what processed the frames before they got to you?
2. Why Cineon files at all at this stage in the pipeline?
3. You say this is an HD job to Film – but for that to be the case the workflow should be HD in Flame/inferno, with the HD output to film at the end. This would mean that the file format of choice for post is 1920 x 1080 at 24P. When working in HD on your flame/inferno – you may work without a LUT – or with a monitor LUT to adjust the monitor to mirror what happens in your own film pipeline.
4. Where is this 1920x 1440 coming from that you mentioned?

mike

[Cerebros]

To add to Mike’s comments, is there a HD IO Board in the inferno or will you need to do exclusive SD+ IO (meaning higher than SD res.) through datafiles? The board and needed HD monitor would give you the physical resolution to look at, but colour wise it could be quite a ways off if you’re doing a Log cineon comp. So its good for checking out composition and movement, although you would be doing that on the sgi monitor as well, (and with a monitor lut loaded the SGI would also give you proper colour display).

Lots of points to take care off before going down this road it would seem. Good luck

Mr C

[sinancg]

Thanks for all the immediate replies. I guess I have to clear some points.

I am using Flame 8.3.1.

The job was shot at 25fps on film. But because the scanning of the print was expensive the producer opted to go for HD telecine and transfer the frames over from HD tape to data files.

The telecine house (there really is one in Turkey) did the HD to Cineon transfer, so I have no control over there. I think you are right in pointing out that Cineon files are 10 bit Mike (my ignorance).

The workflow doesn’t include HD transfer directly to Flame, because there are only 2 Flames that support HD in Turkey (heh heh, there should be a “sarcastic grin” as an emoticon).

Being so excited about HD job, I started the project as 1980×1080 SDTI, but the default 16:9 aspect gave me somewhat squashed frames. That’s where I came up with 1920×1440. But no that doesn’t work.

As for the effects that I will be doing. They are nothing complicated: One is comping reflections of an accident on a truck window. The others all include creating fireflies.

So, here are some better defined (I hope) questions:
– What would be the best way to start a new project: as PAL and using resolution independence or as HD using the standard HD resolution? Will it be 8 bit or 10bitlog?
– The LUT question still stands though. I think it depends on the bit depth.
Thanks again
Sinan Vural

[Anonymous]

Well,… the problem you face is that while the producer may have wanted the post pipeline to be HD, they converted the project to film res when they got the files converted to Cineon.

So now you can choose to do the project HD but you will need to convert from Log 10bit -> 10/8 bit linear HD do the work and then convert back to cineon again.

So they key here is that the conversion from cineon is perfectly mirrored in the convertion back.. only then will you get unity.

Of course you could just work in Cineon space if you want.. there is nothing wrong with importing the cineon files as is, with no actual LUT.. and working on them and using only a monitor LUT so the displayed images look right. This has the advantage of making sure your images intercut perfectly.. but the flame is set up for 12 bit linear – so by not converting some of flame tools are not going to work 100% as you’d expect.. such as the fall off softening on the airbrush. But I have friends who do film trailers in LA and this is how they work day in, day out.

The reason for you doing HD at this point in the project are:
1. It will render faster – true but not a huge amount faster
2. HD i/o for real time i/o – but your not using an HD infenro/flame
3. HD i/o for dailies/offline intercut etc etc but again you’ve not got an infenro/flame HD
4. realtime playback on the broadcast monitor – but again .. no HD

So there aren’t many reasons to complete your job in HD as far as I can see.

The biggest trick for you is to set us a project with proxies and use the new 5/8 proxy workflow in action and batch – this will speed up your workflow alot.. having said that you said your not doing very complex compositing so it may not matter.

If your i/o is via data – then how you set up your project is not so critical – except it will effect all the defaults.. so if you set up an HD project then when you get a coloured frame -for example- it will default to the right 1920×1080 16:9 setting.

From the sounds of your project I would be tempted to run in a 12bit linear project – but import the Cineon files without a LUT and use only a monitor LUT. Don’t forget the images have alredy been converted from HD to Cineon once already !
But then I have a fast Inferno/Onyx at work so … If the clients will be in the suite – then set up an HD project and use a LUT to convert from Cineon to HD and back.

good luck

Mik

[sinancg]

Mike,
Thanks for all the input. I have setup the project as 1920×[email protected](linear) as you suggested, and it is working alright. Of course there is a bit of a lag, but there are no clients in the suite so that doesn’t pose a problem.

Thanks again.
Sinan

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