Red Cam Keying in Flame

[rob fisher]

Has anyone had any issues keying Red?

I have a GS that’s not evenly lit and is full of moblur, but aside from that I should still be getting a better key with the Master Keyer than I am. I’m not working with the source files, but DPX processed files. The job before this one, also Red, but the GS was lit a little bit better, but still the key was not that nice overall.

Any thoughts or tips for keying with Red? Should prod companies avoid shooting Red for GS shoots and stick with film? Or is the Red cam not very forgiving when keying an unevenly lit screen?

Thought I’d just throw this out there.

-rand.

[Saran Sirikasamsap]

i key RED greenscreens almost all the time. usually not an issue, but i do end up using > layer 1 master keyer, layer 2 modular keyer and sometimes a difference matte or CW matte for some details..the separate channel and subtract technique seems to work suprisingly well with RED and arri D21 footage.. make sure to check or ask the colorist to check olpf and denoise settings when they load in their REd files for grading.. cos that can ruin the edges/highlights sometimes.. and they should use rec709/cameraRGB NOT redspace [which sucks]

[Anonymous]

What exactly is the problem? Noise? Edges are too hard?

[claudio antonelli]

@rand_mcnally 31385 wrote:

Any thoughts or tips for keying with Red? Should prod companies avoid shooting Red for GS shoots and stick with film?

In a perfect world, yes, no more Red.
I don’t even mind if people shoot digitally but spend the extra $2-3k or whatever the difference is to rent a Genesis or f-23/35 and shoot 4:4:4. It’s amazing how much time and energy goes into every detail of a shoot only to have the camera skimped on. Tens of thousands of dollars and you’re going to save some bucks on the one thing that everything centers around?

That said, I’ve dealt with a fair amount of Red footage (blue and green screens) and been pleased with the quality of the keys out of the master keyer. The plates I got were decently lit, but nothing ultra special.

[new way]

thanks rohit, you are always a help. unfortunately, the GS is just garbage.

I feel like such a fool doing a full roto on a GS, while having to deal with moblur and a ton of spill and shadows. but those were some good tips for the colourists for the next job.

production needs to get their act together in my city. two in a row now, it’s a sad day.

yeah I know, bitch bitch bitch….67 masks later.

[tscholton]

It sounds like you got some badly shot green screen. I disagree that RED should not be used for green screen, the few RED shot jobs I worked on were by far the best green screen material I have ever worked with (and I’ve worked on a lot). In every case the footage was shot very well by people who had done testing and knew how to get the best out of the camera. The last job had fine hair, smoke, thin trees and it was very close to being the mythical one button key in master keyer.

We have done extensive testing in classes at fxphd showing how to get the best results with many of the digital cameras and I have been involved in other testing by filmmakers. Why people would grab a new camera and shoot without testing and understanding the results mystifies me, but is likely another sad result of the new economy. My fear with all the digital formats is that when it goes wrong and mistakes are made the results can be more tragic than with film.

A couple of tips: RED on the original MX sensor is not ideal shooting blue screen with tungsten light, avoid that. You want your green screen a stop over the key light which is different that what you would normally want for film. All the normal tips apply: talent as far away from screen as possible, screen lit as flatly as possible, as low an ASA as you can, etc.

Jeff

[Author]

Posts